Welcome to my podcast, happily, even After. I’m life coach, jen, I’m passionate about helping people recover from betrayal. I rode the intense emotional roller coaster and felt stuck and traumatized for years. It’s the reason I became a trauma-informed certified life coach who helps people like you navigate their post-betrayal world. I have the tools, processes and knowledge to help you not only heal from the betrayal but create a healthy future. Today, we begin to help you live happily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today’s podcast. I’m so excited to have a fellow Instagram friend, right Like. The thing about the internet we know is we meet people through Instagram that are doing the same thing, kind of as what I’m doing is helping women heal from betrayal or toxic relationships and her name is Laura and her handle is that’s when I’m At Podcast, so she also has a podcast and, just so you know, we’re going to share all of that with you at the end and in the show notes. But I’m so excited to have her on today and I’m going to let her introduce herself a little bit and then we’ll get into the podcast.
Well, hello, I’m so glad I’m here. I know it’s fun. It’s fun when I get to meet the people I’ve been following on Instagram. It’s kind of fun to see everybody everybody talking about their story and stuff.
It’s been. I’ve met a lot of people like that. It’s been really fun. So, yes, hello, I’m Laura. I’m the host of the that’s when I’m At podcast and I’m also a speaker, author, coach and I speak on narcissistic abuse recovery and you know it’s from my own story of spending 33 years with a narcissist and just how I’ve healed from that and why I talk about it. I just talk about it to help others, and mostly women in midlife. That’s who my target audience is, because that’s me. So so we talk about it yeah.
Did you ever think this would be what you would be doing right now?
It’s so funny because I did have a podcast before with my sister and you know I tried to do it when I was married but I wasn’t allowed to. I know people who have been in abuse will understand what that means. You’re not allowed. You know I wasn’t allowed to spend the money or even do anything that made me remotely joyous. You know, does that look like it’s going to make you happy? Then you’re not allowed. And you know that we do things and don’t do things to keep the peace. Yes, that’s why sometimes, when people go aloud, I’m like you’ve never been in abuse.
You don’t understand what that means. Was he jealous or what was?
what do you think was his reason for not allowing? Yeah, I mean yeah, the control, and then they don’t want you to be any like bigger than they are, whatever that means they don’t want you to do things that aren’t going to bring in money.
So even that is stupid to me because it’s like, would it have brought in money, maybe, but I wasn’t given the chance and it seemed frivolous and like, no, you need to just go get a regular job, kind of thing. So I did enjoy, like I did the podcast with my sister for a little while and that was fun. But this was after I got divorced and then during that time I was like I kind of want to do a podcast by myself. I started to figure out that he’s a narcissist and I started healing from that and talking to other people and I really wanted to talk to other people and have women share their story. And that’s how I got into that. And actually I have an anniversary episode coming up on my podcast and I’m going to talk about that because it was. It was not what I expected to do. This was never anything I expected to do. But if you look at my life, I started a podcast because nobody wanted to listen to me.
Yeah, well, I I agree with you and I’ve experienced that as well. Is that for sure? My former spouse was the center of attention and I was below him and I found it very therapeutic for me to use my voice. My podcast has been so healing for me and, if it helps anyone, has been so healing for me and if it helps anyone, it’s helped me and that’s what feels so amazing and it sounds like that’s what it’s done for you, as well as, of course, other people.
Yeah, it did. And when I so, when I signed up I work with a company that produces my podcast and she said sort of at the end, like we’re all signed up, ready to go, and she goes, oh, you’re going to have so much healing, and I go, wait, what? Yeah? And I was like, what are you talking about? It felt like almost therapy every time. But what it really was doing was it was soothing that part of my soul that was like I felt alone. No one understood me. I didn’t understand what was going on around me. I was so confused in my marriage and felt betrayed all the time and I didn’t know what was happening and I didn’t know how to leave or stay or anything. You know, it’s all a big confusion. And so, talking to other people with the same story, wow, I mean, it just was so healing and it’s hard to explain unless you do it. It’s hard to explain how having a podcast there’s something about it that’s so healing, yeah.
I a million percent agree with you. So, in your betrayal, was your spouse having affairs Like what? What was the tipping point for you that got you to leave your marriage?
Yeah well, so nothing I ever caught him doing, but there were plenty of times we went to therapy over women and his behavior with women and things that I didn’t feel were appropriate in a marriage. Yeah, and not only that. When you are in a marriage and you decide together, these are the boundaries that we have for each other. These are the things that we want to do with other people You’re allowed to do or not allowed to do, or whatever I feel comfortable with. So, whatever it is, we had boundaries.
He was not interested in those boundaries and so he would cross them all the time. And did I ever catch him sleeping with anybody? No, do I. Did I have to go to the OBGYN to go have testing? Sure, because, because they’re not to be believed, and so so the tipping point for me was that woman likes my husband way too much, and it was a coworker, and I just kept saying you guys are going to end up together. I don’t like the way you’re behaving with her, blah, blah, blah. And he didn’t want to hear it. He’s like no, we’re just friends, and that’s always their MO. We’re just friends, yeah.
And I think did you feel like your gut, like you knew it in your gut, but it was. You didn’t feel, you didn’t trust yourself because you’re like I, I don’t know about everything, you’re so sensitive, you’re so sensitive. And so we would come home like from going out to dinner she was also, since it was a coworker we would see her at events and we would start going out with, like her and her boyfriend or whatever, and I’d come home and say, like you flirt way too much with her, it’s not okay. And I said that 7 billion times in my marriage. And he’d go oh, I’m so sorry. And then, on a silver platter, he would say you know, every girlfriend has said how flirty I am, and they’re saying that to let you know. Well, sort of their red flag. And then you can’t do anything about it and you don’t even process it, but just to say this is just the way I am, I’m a flirty guy, that’s just how it is.
And so what was I going to do when, when we met her, we were 25 years in, I had 25 years of training to not make a fuss about anything, or he was going to get mad at me. You know, you, you do the thing so that your husband doesn’t get mad at you or that he continues to love you or give you a breadcrumb, and I didn’t know there was anything wrong with that, because that’s all you knew. That’s all I knew, and also like that’s just what you do. You just make it work out, and I also now I know better. As far as you have to stop expecting you from other people, I have integrity.
I’m a woman of my word. So if someone is speaking to me and saying I promise I won’t do that, I expect you to not do that. But he but I didn’t know, and every time I would catch him in a lie or whatever. I just didn’t do anything about it because it was too scary to even consider the possibility of not being married and the devastation of him ending up with somebody else that in my head I was in such survival mode I was like, no, I can’t let that happen, I will do anything. And if that means that he lies to me and he tells me he’s not doing anything with this woman, I will just believe it and move on with my life and keep my head firmly in the sand.
Yeah, well, that feels safer, for sure. That feels safer for you and I. I just always have to have lots of compassion for my past self.
And I’m sure you do too, because it’s like you did.
You just did what you, the thing you knew right, and your past self just didn’t know better.
No, we didn’t. And I tell people that because I know people in my comments say like I feel so dumb or I I just feel bad or I feel so stupid that I believe that. And it’s like no, we can’t do that because we were in survival mode and we were doing what was best for us in that moment and we were doing what was best for us in that moment.
Yes, Not to mention, we were being bamboozled, you know so. There’s nothing I mean. If somebody is lying to you but you don’t know that they’re lying to you, you’re believing them because it’s your husband.
Yes, you know all the things and if you’re committed to trust our husband, we are taught and and also I felt very committed to my marriage.
not that other people haven’t been, but I felt committed to my marriage. So it’s like I never thought in my head he would do something like that, because we were committed. And this is the other thing too right is that they’re talking out the other side of their mouth saying, yes, I value our marriage and I really want to work on it, and all that.
And I love you so much. You’re all I want. Yes, all the things.
Insert all the things that really, at the end I was so confused because of course, I was in a trauma bond and so it was very, very confusing and yeah.
So what gave you the courage to leave? Was it you that chose to leave or was it your husband? Sort of a husband?
Yes exactly so. It was the reverse discard. So all of this. I didn’t know what any of this was.
Yes.
He was the one who initiated but then was like you know. So he said and I won’t say what he said because it’s very crass. But he said if this is the way our life is going to be, you should tell me you’re done. And so in the reverse discard they push it so that you can leave. And so I did say you know what I’m done? And it was just. I surprised myself, believe me.
Yeah, you’re like what just came out of my mouth.
I’m done, okay. But you know what? I had been in therapy and I just remember her saying to me is he unwilling or unable? And every week we would talk about it and I’d be like he’s unwilling and she’d be like, okay, you know not, you have to decide if you’re going to leave. But she would remind me over and over. And so the other thing too was I just wasn’t happy to the point where I just felt like I didn’t even want to be in the world anymore and I didn’t want to die. But it was that part of like you want to disappear, you want out of your situation, and I still was having that trauma bond where I didn’t want to leave but I didn’t want to stay. And so when the words came out of my mouth, I was like really surprised.
But the reason that he had to do the reverse discard Now I understand it, now that I’m a freaking expert is that he had the smear campaign already going. So he was already telling everyone that he was in a terrible marriage. He was already telling the girlfriend he was in a terrible marriage and everything’s terrible. And so now he can say, oh, laura asked for a divorce, woe is me. And it goes along with the narrative. Now, I thought that might be happening, but my grown kids confirm that. You know they were like, yeah, dad’s telling everybody that you gave up on the marriage and I was the only one like in therapy and like doing anything.
I totally gave up on it. Yeah, I gave up. Yeah, so it is so fascinating how their brain works. So for me, as I understand, like he’s obviously clearly probably not been diagnosed that he’s a narcissist, no, absolutely not. I believe narcissists are unable to have empathy. So he was unable to do that. So us trying to get it from him yeah, from a narcissist is really like it’s. It’s pointless. But we don’t know that, right. But now now you know that and you’re like, okay, of course he’s like that Right.
Exactly.
Yeah. So what do you tell your brain now? How do you handle it now? Like from that Laura, when you the words came out of your mouth like how do you handle it now? Like from that Laura, when the words came out of your mouth like how do you?
Yeah Well, I’m a completely different person because once I did that, I felt very brave. Two of my kids actually congratulated me, you know, via text on the side, after we told them we were getting a divorce. They’re like we know you’ve been struggling, we’re so proud of you for making a choice. And so, with narcissism, this is what I tell people, because people don’t like it unless they’re diagnosed that we use the word. But I don’t, I don’t care, because he is an exact narcissist and it doesn’t matter.
This is what I want people to hear. Yes, you do not have to check any boxes, you just have to know how are you being treated. And so that I, that I figured out he was a narcissist was helpful for my healing. And so now that I can help others and so to understand, because I didn’t know what he did at the time was the reverse discard, but now I do, because he’s a coward. And that’s how they are. They’re cowards, they want the smear campaign has been going.
All the things that he wants to blame it on you. He wants to blame and that’s the thing they don’t take accountability okay. So it’s that lack of empathy and a high need for control. So those are the classic, you know, and everything’s about them. But you know like I had a covert nurse who acted kind of like no, I don’t like the spotlight or whatever, but if you ever listen to him talk in a group, my god, it was all about him all the time and everybody thought he was so charming and so nice and, yeah, my book. What I did, you know what is your book’s?
title again, it’s called Married to a Nice Guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I mean because I heard that all the time and it drove me crazy because I’d be like God, if you only knew.
Yeah, if you only knew like at home.
He’s like so mean to me and he’s kind of a jerk and he’s like abandoning his family, but he’s nice, you know I guess you know that kind of thing and family, but he’s nice, you know, I guess you know that kind of thing and that’s the hard part.
So it’s. I always tell people you don’t need a checkbox, you don’t need to know the exact definition of narcissism and you don’t need to get them diagnosed, because they’re not going anywhere near therapy to go get diagnosed with anybody. The numbers are very low on narcissistic abuse because they won’t go get diagnosed. And really, what does it matter if they’re diagnosed or not? How is someone treating you? Yeah, what it helps you do is now you know how to handle it. You know whether you’re going to stay or you’re going to leave. I mean, I don’t recommend staying, if at all possible, but when you’re going to leave, now you know how to heal and what happened and how, what they did to you, and so now you know what to do next yeah, and I think even just naming abuse is helpful, because we all know if you’re physically abused, leave the marriage right.
But we do not talk enough about emotional abuse and psychological abuse because, for whatever reason, it’s like am I, is this abuse? Like we, I didn’t even same as you didn’t realize I was in an abusive marriage until I got out of the marriage. I’m like wait a second, right, right. I’m like, oh my gosh, what was I doing? And if you know, but we didn’t let anyone else in. It sounds like like if someone would have been like, laura, leave your husband. You would have been like but no, you know, I can’t.
I would not have been receptive. I had a couple of friends who were in a similar marriage and after I got divorced, they told me they suspected, and they said, well, but I don’t think you would have been receptive, and I said I wouldn’t have been, I would have made excuses for him, because I always did, and that’s just part of it. Right, you, and not to mention you, almost feel ashamed. I mean I don’t know how. I know other people have told me they felt this way. I know for sure I did.
I felt very ashamed that I didn’t know and I didn’t see it, and that he was doing I and I didn’t see it and that he was doing. I mean I’m looking back at our 33 years with him and I’m I can find like all lies, like so many lies, and it makes me sad and so I feel kind of dumb about that. But I don’t beat myself up about it because we were bamboozled. Yeah, they were doing it on purpose, they were manipulating us to get their way, and so I can’t feel too bad about that.
We can’t change our past right. For me I had to forgive myself. Forgiving myself was the hardest thing because I was super quick to forgive him in the past. But I’m like I had to forgive me and that because I just didn’t know.
We didn’t know what we didn’t know. We didn’t know Right, exactly, and I had so many people telling me that they’re like no way. Give yourself some grace for that. You didn’t know. He manipulated you and lied to you. Someone is lying to you, so of course you didn’t, of course, you didn’t know, and it makes me when I think back to it. It just you didn’t, of course, you didn’t know, yeah, and it makes me when I think back to it. I just it makes me sad that he did that.
But yeah Well, look at you now, though. Like right, Like you’re killing it. You’re living your best life. You’re living your best life, oh gosh.
I mean it took a lot of work, but I was not this person before. I was very quiet and but it takes it takes a lot of healing because I don’t want anybody else to go through this and that’s why I talk about it you know people are like move on, don’t talk about it anymore. I’m like, so all that does is it benefits the abuser when we don’t talk about it and so and so abusers keep abusing.
And one of my friends told me recently. They said, oh yeah, I was telling my friend about your podcast or something and I was like, oh, that’s nice. And she said, yeah. I said I told them it was about narcissistic abuse and they said what is that? And I said my work here is not.
Yeah, absolutely, and we have to. There has to be people out there that speak the unspeakable, that speak the things that other people are afraid to talk about. But also we have to give ourselves compassion because back when, even 10 years ago, we didn’t have these, we didn’t have podcasts and we didn’t have the word gaslighting everywhere, right?
Like I didn’t know I was being gaslit until right before I got divorced and I was like that’s so funny, oh my gosh, and I had journal entries and I’m like I’ve been being gaslit my entire marriage, that is so fun.
Oh my gosh, I mean we all have the same story it’s so crazy same thing. I went back through all my journals and I was like, oh my gosh, like it’s right there, laura, it’s right there but yeah if you don’t know, you don’t know.
But that’s why I love journaling, and I love journaling even when you’re healing, because you don’t see the small steps, you don’t see those small things that are happening. To help you look at, oh my gosh, look at how much better we are and look how much better everything’s you know going. Because if you wait for the big events, it’s not enough. You have to look at the small events too.
But yes my gosh, it was the same way I said to him. I said I think you’re gaslighting me and he’s like what is that? I don’t even know what that is. I would never do that, I’m like. So he just gaslit me, yeah.
You’re like, let me tell you I have a list of all the times and then the love bombing and yeah, everything, all the things. Like I didn’t ever have a name to that and we right, sounds like you went to therapy and it’s not like the therapist was telling you this either.
Right, no, if they’re not informed, maybe they’re not trauma informed. I also, I mean, I have people who have said, oh yeah, my therapist said, yeah, he sounds like a narcissist, but I didn’t come in there saying that because I didn’t know until after, yes, and I started putting the puzzle pieces together. Somebody called it like a lightning strike, and then you just all of a sudden real, and so that’s how it was for me. I found out about his girlfriend and I was like, oh, I knew I wasn’t crazy. And so then I just all the puzzle pieces were like coming together like a beautiful mind, you know like a whole thing like that.
And she didn’t know. She just encouraged me to care for myself and just like if I was unhappy because, because she kept telling me she was. Well, we can’t do anything about him. What are you gonna do about you? And and I know that she couldn’t just tell me and she told me that after yeah, she said, I can’t just like come out and say like hey your husband’s a piece of junk she could have.
She chose not to, but you might not have heard it right. You would have been like defended him, and so that wouldn’t have been helpful for your healing either. Like sometimes we all have to heal at our own pace. I think so too. Yeah, we’re not ready to hear things because we’re like, wait a second, that’s not true. I don’t believe that, and so you have to be able to believe it. So I I mean she did. I mean, who knows? We don’t know if it would have been better one way or another, but it seemed to work for you.
Well, that’s what people say, Like I wish I would have known sooner or whatever. And I used to say that. And I think no, because I don’t know, if I would have been ready, I wouldn’t have been. Yeah, what if she would have said that to me? And then I come home from therapy and say like hey, I think you’re a narcissist. Like what is that going to do? That’s not going to, but I didn’t know enough and so I don’t ever say that to him. He heard one thing I did online and he said to me he goes, I heard you’re calling me a narcissist and I was like yep. And he’s like well, I guess, if that’s what you want to do with your life, I’m like oh gee thanks.
Yeah, you’re like, I’m not asking permission anymore. Not asking anymore. Yeah, well, I mean the healing process. The thing is, I think people just want it to, just I want to heal, but it is a process. Yeah, and it has to be when you’re ready to hear certain things. Right, yes, we’re not ready to have it all at once?
No, oh gosh, no, Can you imagine? No, because you, it’s too much. And so that I heard gaslighting, like you did, you know. And then I would, I’d see a video here and there. And then I saw one video that was about narcissistic abuse and I’m like it opened the floodgates and I just thought this makes so much sense. So it made me research more and I kind of just started unraveling and everything and, and so now I get it, you know, and it was great to see the videos, but it was a little bit at a time that I saw it.
And it starts clicking. You’re like, ok, maybe this is so what made you write your book Like you wrote that kind of at the beginning. Is that right?
Yeah, beginning about a year, about a year after it was about a year after you got divorced or what. About a year. I’m trying to think when it was last? Yeah, so about a year and a half. Well, I wanted to write a book and as I was going through my journals, I’m like I want people to see the healing process, because some days are good, some days are bad.
And it’s really not linear, it is a big mess and you just keep walking forward and backwards in every which way and something triggers you and you just keep going and so I just that’s what I wanted to do. So my book is a collection of my journal entries of my life with him, and then I would. Then I write about it like what was the narcissist doing? What was I doing to heal from it? What’s happening in this scenario, kind of thing. So it kind of gives you an overall picture of narcissistic abuse and healing from it.
I love that, and I bet it was healing for you too, right, yeah?
Yeah, it really was. And yeah, there were some things. My publisher said again you’re going to get more healing and I’m like okay. But you know what was the most surprising part was, as I was writing stories, I’d stop and I’d go oh my gosh, that was a lie and so like things were coming back to me.
So I’m still unraveling lies. People who haven’t been in it don’t understand right, like things will come back and we’re thinking about something and, yeah, thought comes back to you that and you go oh, was that a lie? Well, oh, yeah.
I have a whole notes app in my phone because I think when I got divorced my brain finally felt safe, yeah, and things that it had hidden for like 25 years, 20 year memories yeah, it didn’t feel safe.
Remembering started random names. Women’s names would pop in my head and wow and I would be like, oh my gosh, like that was probably something right, like so very fascinating, but I think it’s because our brain wasn’t safe, our body didn’t feel safe. Yeah, so, until you can create safety, that’s when you you can, I think, even heal more. That’s why it is really hard to try healing being married to a narcissist or someone that’s emotionally abusive because you can start the process.
I did start the process while I was married, but exponentially more when I got divorced.
Yeah, because if you’re, if you’re actively being abused, I think your brain is still in that protection.
Yeah.
Protection mode. And so because what I didn’t realize until after was that you start to get clarity because when you’re not being actively abused you can. Your brain is just getting clarity and you are starting to understand, like that, like you’re getting these names or you’re starting to remember things. And that’s why it’s important, I think, to talk to a professional that is trauma informed, yes, and because they can help you unravel that. You don’t need to dig deep into every name or any of that stuff, but it’s just, you just realize all the things that are going to come up for you. You might think about your childhood, you might you know, who knows like things are going to come up and it’s look, might as well just get in there, look at it and heal it. Yeah, I agree.
So for you, do you work with women, Are you? Do you work on one with them? How do you work?
So I do one on one. Coaching and group coaching. Ok, oh yeah, I do both. And yeah, we’re usually women in midlife. But any women really, that’s just my, that’s just sort of my niche. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t usually work with men, but if I know somebody really wanted to, I could, but usually women in midlife. And so, yeah, we’re doing one on one for the people who don’t usually work with men. But if somebody really wanted to, I could, but usually women in midlife. And so yeah, we’re doing one on one for the people who don’t want to be in a group. And then I have some some groups as well where we can all learn from each other and we go through a program and kind of unravel it and dream again for the future.
Because when you get to midlife and you go like what happened to me, what just happened, yes, it is true, because if you’re getting divorced now, it’s like you’re the divorce, but also your kids might be moving out. There’s so much in midlife that happens regardless of whether you’re married or divorced, and so it’s a lot. It is a lot. It can be really overwhelming.
It is. And so because, especially like if you’ve been married for a long time, I find women who have been either maybe like it’s so, like say it’s their second marriage and they were married 15 years, or we have women like me who are married 30 years and you’re getting to midlife and you’re like but I was supposed to have a life and retire with somebody, and now what do I do? Now and when we’ve been in abuse, we forget that we’re allowed to dream for ourselves and have aspirations. And again, if you have children, they’re either grown and you don’t need to care for them as much or you’re an empty nester. And now you get to dream for whatever you want to do, and it’s giving women permission to do that. Even if you don’t work with me, like, you have permission to dream about your future. It’s not the, it’s not the end. My gosh. These are the best years we have.
We have freedom and the freedom my gosh like the best part Like.
I don’t have anybody after this, like after this interview, telling me that was dumb or whatever, like I don’t have that.
And I don’t have to worry about that.
And I mean, he used to say everything was embarrassing and you know, like, like, oh, you’re on social media, that’s embarrassing, you know, things like that, and and so now we have freedom to do whatever we want, and that’s the other thing is trying to figure out what is it?
because we probably minimize ourself so small sure yeah, well, and they minimized us yeah, of course but we, you know, societally, as women, we’re definitely not taught to like, you know, put yourself first. Now it’s like your husband, your, your kids and you know everything but yourself. And some like it’s some sort of badge of honor to like not think about ourselves. But we can’t live that way and so we have to. We get to this point, let’s, let’s keep dreaming. So that’s what I usually work on is we’re dreaming for the future.
Yeah, what’s your big dream? Do you have a big dream? Share it, share no, that’s.
That’s so funny, because, because I’m in, I was in therapy and yesterday I said what is my big dream? So I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, I really love what I’m doing right now. So right now this has been great, but I’m wondering if there’s something else I want to add on to this. And so that’s funny that you asked me, because I actually I actually don’t know.
Yet you need to figure that out. And what? What have you done? That’s been the scariest since you’ve been divorced, like extra, like a lot. I’m sure Do you have something that you’ve done, I mean the most exciting thing you’ve done, or Well, we used to always talk about going to Paris and we were going to go for our 30th anniversary, but that was in 2020.
And so we weren’t going anywhere and then the marriage fell apart after that. So I took myself to Paris a couple of years ago. That was super scary and I went with a group, but basically I was by myself and that was so scary, but also it was so empowering to go. And the funny thing is is I I we like come around the corner on the tour bus and there’s the Eiffel Tower and I like gasped so loud that everyone on the bus was like, oh my gosh, what I was like you guys, it’s the Eiffel Tower. But they knew they knew that it was like oh my gosh, what I was like you guys, it’s the Eiffel Tower. But they knew, they knew that it was like my goal.
So I told everybody there and I met other women there who were like oh yeah, I left my husband after 38 years, I left my husband after 41 years and like we’re not trying to encourage divorce, what we’re saying is they were in abuse. And they were like forget this. Like yeah. So I was like, oh my gosh, and they told me it’s not too late for your happily ever after.
Yeah, I was like oh my gosh, and so that was the scariest thing I did. I mean, of course, doing the podcast.
Yes, talking about scary things, right, lots of scary things, but that was probably.
that was a big one. Like to fly across the world Like that was scary.
Yeah, no, I love that so much. I’m a traveler too, so I like I like to travel well, it’s been so nice to chat with you and so if people want to find out, we’ll put everything in the show notes, but they can follow you on. That’s where I’m at podcast. That’s your Instagram. Right everywhere I’m at podcast. That’s your.
Instagram right Everywhere, I’m everywhere. Every social media, yeah, every social media. That’s where I’m at. Podcast dot com is my website, but every social media. Everything’s under. That’s where I’m at podcast, so just come looking for me. I’m making. I make videos to entertain and to inform, but usually I’m making fun of the narcissist. So come on over.
Yeah, yeah, well I’m. That’s why I like you, because I think you have to laugh. Sometimes it’s so painful that if you don’t bring humor in it, you could just be on a puddle crying all the time Because it’s so painful. But it’s like for me humor has been really healing for me as well.
It’s actually chemically you know it’s good chemicals in your brain. We can’t even get the information that we need if we don’t have our brain in healing mode. So, listen, you have to laugh about it because it’s so ludicrous, like, yeah, I laugh at them and I also I don’t necessarily laugh at myself like God, that was dumb, you know but just laughing at them. They’re ridiculous clowns and that’s why we keep talking about it. Yes, absolutely.
Okay, all right, so nice to meet you and we will talk soon. Okay, see ya. If you want to learn how to live happily even after, sign up for my email at hello at lifecoachjenwith1ncom. Follow me on Instagram and Facebook at happily even after coach. Let’s work together to create your happily even after.
