Fair Is Not The Goal In Divorce And Here Is Why with Guest Jason Wright

Welcome to Happily Even After Betrayal with Life Coach Jen. This podcast is where we talk about betrayal and divorce and what it actually looks like to live through those experiences while still being a parent, a grandparent, a partner, or just a human trying to keep it all together. If your heart feels shattered, your nervous system feels dysregulated, and your future feels unclear, you’re in the right place. Here we focus on understanding what happened so you can rebuild your identity, restore your confidence, and find peace. So you can create your happily even after, one episode at a time. Hey friends, welcome to today’s podcast. I’m so glad you’re here. Today I have a special guest. His name is Jason Wright, and he comes from the great state of Texas. He lives in Austin, Texas, and he is a divorce attorney. And I’m really excited. I know I’ve had a few attorneys on, and I just think it’s helpful as you are navigating, deciding whether you want to stay married or get divorced, to have some experts, because I’m not an expert in divorce, even though I myself did get divorced. I just want to give you some opportunity to maybe hear from some people about their experience as they navigate divorce with their clients. So thanks so much for being here, Jason.

Meet Texas Divorce Attorney Jason

Thanks. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. So I learned a few things about you. You’re a father of two children, and you live in Austin, Texas, which is such a beautiful city. I’ve only been there once, but I really enjoyed my time there. What else do you want us to know about you?

Yeah, yes, I’m a father to married. We live in Austin, Texas. We we travel a lot. We are on a goal to go to all 50 states with the kids. And so we’re we’re headed to the East Coast here in a few weeks. But other than that, we we have a firm here in Austin. We service uh Travis County, Williams County, and Hayes County, which is the central area, central part of Texas.

All right, great.

Dropping The Fairness Scorecard

So today I wanted to talk to you about, I know one thing, and I myself felt this way because my husband had had an affair, and I thought, you know, the divorce, how could it be a fair divorce? So do you find people getting stuck in the idea that a divorce should be fair?

Yes. Uh now what I’ll say is so for me in my practice, and for me as personally as an attorney, but in my firm, there’s a word that we don’t allow to be used. I correct clients every time they say it, and that’s the F-word, and it’s the F word in family law, and that’s fair. It’s there’s no outcome that my firm or I is going to get someone that is fair. And so I am constantly doing my best not to harp on clients, but to help them understand that they are in a fair cycle. They are, this isn’t fair, this isn’t right, I don’t deserve this, this shouldn’t have happened to me, or or what he or she is doing is terrible. All of that can be true. And maybe, maybe it isn’t fair. Maybe objectively we all agree it’s fair, but in that moment, understanding whether it’s fair or not matters not onto the outcome of what are your options. How do you move forward? Yeah. And how do you move forward?

Yeah. Don’t you think it keeps people stuck in their story?

It absolutely does.

Yeah.

And, you know, and it’s difficult. We’re still human beings. What I often tell people is your heart and your and your brain operate at two different speeds, and it’s a real drag. It sucks when you’re going through a divorce or dealing with really high conflict situations. Intellectually, you understand what I’m saying, or you understand the terms, but your heart is caught up in these emotions and feelings, and and it’s difficult. And when you’re dealing with your children, you’re dealing with your money, these are two of the biggest things in people’s lives. And it is very difficult for people to process that there’s going to be a substantial change. And how substantial or how how detrimental there will be a change. And it really doesn’t matter if it was if the reason or the outcome was fair to you, fair to your children, fair to your family. None of that matters. That’s not the guidepost that the court is going to look for. And in Texas, that’s not the that’s not the guidepost for the Texas family code either.

Yeah. So what do they look for?

Two Buckets Kids And Money

Like what are they looking for when you come, you present, this is what how much money they have. Is it different in every case, or what is it that they’re looking for?

Yeah, first and foremost, every case is different. Every divorce is different. So, you know, while I have no doubt your brother’s roommate’s friend’s divorce went this way, that has no bearing on the facts in your case. And that’s a common, common symptom that we deal with of, well, why are we doing this? Or why do I have to do this? My cousin’s divorce didn’t in that way. I can’t know those facts, but you know, there’s two buckets. What I said is too, we got the the money bucket and the kid bucket. And there’s they’re different in the analysis and

Conservatorship Possession Support Explained

and what the courts are looking for and what the facts are. In Texas, so in Texas, we don’t use the word custody. We have three the three things that we fight about on the kid bucket are what we call conservatorship, possession, and then child support. And I I often describe those as three legs of a stool. They they are connected in that they depend on each other, but you know, they’re not one plus one is two. And so, you know, when we’re dealing with our our issues, we have who’s gonna get to make decisions is one thing, separate and apart from where will the kids be. And and there’s a different analysis for each one and a different the factors matter. You could have no decision-making power and still have a possession. I mean, you’re almost certainly gonna have a possession schedule. You know, we don’t use the word visitation, uh, you know, nobody visits their kid.

Yeah.

And so it implies that one parent is the parent and this person’s the visitor, and that’s not true.

Yeah.

And so in Texas, it maybe it sounds kind of aggressive, but we say possession. What I like to say is you made these things, you get to possess these things. And so, you know, decision-making power is one issue, where they’re gonna spend the night’s another issue, and then who’s gonna pay support and what that support is. Um, you know, what they look for when it comes to decisions, well, in general, I’ll I’ll say this the status quo has a lot of weight, right? You’re you’re how you are operating your marriage right now has a lot of bearing on when you’re divorced and you have two homes, how are we gonna operate? Yeah, you know, now clearly there’s gonna be two homes, there’s gonna be two decision makers, things are gonna happen. When when either parent’s gonna have that child in their house, they get to parent their child. But if one parent already, in most cases, most families, I I I say this all the time, most cases, one parent is carrying at least 51% of the emotional or our parenting water. And uh that’s that’s gonna matter. That’s gonna in our courts, that’s gonna matter. Now, it doesn’t mean that this person’s gonna get to decide things over this person, but we have the the one of the big rights that we fight about is who gets to designate the primary residents. And you know, is that for taxes or is that just for other well it I mean there it there can be an implication with I don’t give tax advice, I don’t practice tax law, but you know, being the head being the head of the household and having the children that that is that can be a thing. But for us, it’s it’s the it’s a right to determine like this is gonna be the flag in the ground of where their primary home is. A lot of times that’s where where where the schools will be zoned, or you know, what what schools we’re gonna zone, things like that. And um, but we fight a lot about that. But possession, right, deals with where will they where will

Why Status Quo Shapes Parenting Plans

they sleep, where will they spend the night. And so in Texas, we do not have a presumption that a parent should have a 50-50 possession schedule. There is nothing in the Texas Family Code that outlines a 50-50 possession schedule. In fact, we don’t have a schedule for children under three. Until a child turns three, it’s kind of the wild west. We have all kinds of things that we do and we have you know patterns that we’ve used for decades, but you you couldn’t turn to a page right now and and look up what is the possession schedule for a child two years old. For us, that starts at three. And so it is presumed that one parent should have this schedule. We can talk about that if you’d like. But the the point being this when a person comes in and says, I’m an equal parent and I’m I should have 50-50 time, I should have my child 50% of the time. I’ll I’ll use generalities, but in more often than not, a father might come and say that and say, I should have 50-50% of the schedule, I’m an equal parent. I’ll look them dead in the face and say, Okay, well, great. What’s your child’s teacher’s name? And they don’t sometimes they’re like, I don’t what does that matter? Right? I’ll say, Well, what’s your child’s doctor’s name? When was the last time you you left work to take them to the doctor? And they they might say, Well, I work. Okay, so your your spouse is a stay-at-home spouse. No, no, they work too. How how is it just decided that they’re the default person that leaves work? Yeah, these are factors that these are conversations that when you’re going to a court saying, judge, I know I’ve never I’ve never done this before. I’ve I’ve never been a 50-50 parent before.

But I want to be now.

But I but I will now, but going now, I will. Yeah. It doesn’t mean that you won’t, and it doesn’t mean that you can’t. It’s just you’re asking a judge who doesn’t know you, who in our in Texas, we elect our judges. So that doesn’t that judge may or may not have ever practiced family law.

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

So, you know, they’re gonna make a decision on what what is the least this is gonna be disruptive. What’s the least disruptive pattern? It has nothing to do with it. You’re a good parent, a bad parent, good father, good mother, good person. It has nothing to do with that.

Yeah.

Uh, there’s a lot of arguments people want to say, well, isn’t it best for the child that they have equal time with the parents? I I don’t know that that default sentence is true. I don’t necessarily believe that. It depends on what is the family structure before divorce.

That’s true. So if it it doesn’t start till three, does it go till 18?

Is that the the possession schedule ends at 18. At 18. Once they turn 18, they’re an adult. And so there’s no there’s no possession schedule. Uh, but child support goes until they turn 18 or graduates high school, whichever it comes latter. So you could have a situation where a parent as a child who’s, you know, for instance, my my son will turn 18 in November of his senior year.

Yeah.

And so at that point, there’s no possession schedule. I have no decision-making power over him because he’s an adult that his doctor won’t even talk to me. Uh, that kind of thing. But you’d have to pay child support until for the next yeah, till May or whatever.

Yeah. Interesting.

Teens Court Orders And Enforcement

And I think people get hung up on that. But I I do think it’s really hard to tell a 15-year-old or a 16-year-old to say you have to go, you know. So if that happens, if they’re if say they do get 50-50, and do they force them to do the possession time with the parents, or is it forced in Texas? I’m just curious because I got divorced. My youngest was fifty, I think he was 16, and he never went and spent the night of his dad’s. We we actually didn’t even do a custody, we didn’t do custody because of his age and he had no desire to Well, you you you likely came to an agreement on that? Yes, we came to an agreement. Yeah.

Uh well, if you have a court order, regardless whether you came to an agreement or not, if you have a court order that’s let’s call it an agreed divorce, right? And it says Friday at six o’clock is dad’s time. Let’s just as an example. It doesn’t matter if you agreed to it or the judge ordered it or whatever. Once you have a court order, that agreement is now a magical court order.

Yeah.

And it doesn’t matter if the kid doesn’t want to go there or not. And it but it also very much depends on the judge. We have various judges in this area. I have one judge that will look us dead in the face and say, I don’t want to hear about enforcements, strict enforcements, on a 14-year-old.

Yeah.

Meaning suddenly now that 14-year-old gets to decide where they go, regardless. That’s a very dangerous situation, in my opinion. It’s very easy for a parent to poison a 14-year-old’s mind. So that’s not to me, that’s not a good example. I can also tell you I have a judge, I had a client who the child was 16, wanted to live primarily with the other parents, was running away from home, and the other parent we went to court, battled out. The judge uh met with the child in Texas. Once a child is 12, they can talk with the judge. They don’t get to decide anything. Children don’t decide anything in Texas family courts, but they can tell the court how they preference. Yeah. So at a 16, uh, 16 and change-year-old child wanting to live with the other parent, told the child there was no abuse, there was no the judge did not care. The judge said, You’re going to remain at this person’s at the other parent’s house. And when that child ran away again and the other parent didn’t force him back, my client was held in contempt and was threatened with jail. So it very much depends on that judge. That that judge’s position was, and the statement he said was, if that child woke up and said he wasn’t going to school, would the parent just say, okay, never mind? Yeah. No, they’d get him to school.

Yeah. It’s so complicated because there’s so many emotions in divorce and it’s it’s a lot of painful things. So what is something that you see that parents, once they get the you know, decree of custody, what are people like, what are their thoughts that make them successful? That it creates a successful. Do you have that? Like

Living With The Decree

that people have a mindset or an idea that creates success as opposed to they just continue fighting about it? Is there anything that helps?

Once you have an order, once you have a decree, whether you know, if you’re div, if you were a divorced and you and you you have a decree, you know, but you you were married, you got divorced, you have a final decree divorce. If you weren’t married, but you had children, you have a different order. But the point is you have a piece of paper that is is no longer in agreement. Once that judge signed it, now it’s as that’s a lie. That’s right.

Yeah.

And so if it’s by agreement, what I tell people and I counsel people all the time when we’re in mediation and other things, before you sign your name to this, you you need to understand it, first of all. And it’s not that you agree with everything, but you agree enough that you can live with it. And if it’s not an agreement, right, you went to court and a judge decided it, then I don’t really, it’s not, it doesn’t matter if you like it, it is what it is. And so when it comes to how they can be successful, is is again letting go of the fair cycle. The ones that cannot get past the fairness of it, the the the I don’t deserve this, or this sucks, or this is yeah, that’s all true. Yeah. This this piece of paper doesn’t change. This piece of paper says what it says. Following it, eventually you and your children will establish a pattern. It will become your routine. Was it your routine? No. Was it better? It doesn’t matter. This is what it is, and if you’re constantly fighting it, then you will never have peace. You will never, you will never find a new new equilibrium for you or your children.

It’s so

Mediation And Keeping Control

true. It’s so true. The um would you suggest people trying to do mediation first before they let allow a judge to decide for them? Or is there is the judge always have the final say? Like, is it can you get divorced without going to the judge or in Texas? I know I did, but how does that work?

I tell almost everybody, I mean, just think about it from a logical standpoint. Most people would want to have a say in what happens to their children.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah.

And the idea that you’re gonna go let a a judge who was elected or appointed by doesn’t know you, doesn’t know you, gets to see this much of your case. You know, you know, you might get a three hours, you might get a day. You know, you never practiced family law, uh, you know, doesn’t doesn’t like family law, uh, you know, what whatever. These are all real things that we deal with. Uh, maybe got into a fight with their spouse that morning, and now they’re here. Like these are real things. You’re gonna go let that person decide what happens to your children. That should be terrifying for most people.

Yeah.

But sometimes it’s unavoidable because you can only control your half. You can only write the other person wants to be the primary parent, right? And and you want to be the primary parent. And and well, there’s no middle ground there. Um but I almost all of our cases will go to mediation at some point.

Um do you find mostly the women moms get the primary custody of kids, or does it not matter these days anymore?

You mean in a courtroom?

Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn’t cut that way. It cuts, it’s what is the status quo? I have I have lots of clients, I have lots of fathers that are the primary caregiver of their children. Yeah. Because they were before the divorce.

Yeah, okay, yeah.

That’s not the majority of households, but it’s it’s again, it’s very fact-specific. You walk into a courtroom and you say, I’m the father, I should be the primary caregiver of the child. Okay. Well, how how have you been the primary care before today? I never have. I work, I’m the provider, but but I’m a better parent and I’ll be a better parent. That’s an argument. Uh I don’t know that it’s very convincing on most judges. Um, so that’s how that works. Okay.

Yeah. So, okay, so custody, what is something else?

Texas Child Support And Maintenance

I mean, I know money is a huge thing. How does that play into like, because for me, I was a stay-at-home mom before I got divorced. And so my husband provided for a family. And how does that get figured out? We’ll just go with Texas since that’s you’re the expert in Texas.

It’s the only thing I can talk to you about. Uh so you know, we have child support in Texas. It’s capped, meaning once once a parent makes over eleven thousand seven hundred a month, that’s it. That’s what we base child support on. It if he makes thirty thousand dollars a month, we stop at eleven seven. Oh, wow. Um, and you know, and it it’s you know, for every kid it’s five percent. It starts at twenty percent, twenty-five, thirty, depends on the number of children. But it’s against that number. Okay, whatever their it’s it’s it’s our adjusted income, not theirs. So we have a calculation to figure out. But once that number hits 117, that’s as high as we go. With some small exceptions and things that really require some specific issues, right? The needs of the children. And needs are not necessarily like I really want them to play football, or they really need a PlayStation. Like that, that’s like bona fide needs. We don’t have alimony, but we do have what we call spousal maintenance. It sounds like I’m saying the same thing, but it’s it’s not one is one is in the code, there’s ways for it to end, things like that. But there’s requirements. And in Texas, you have to be married at least 10 years before that door is even open. Again, there’s some small exceptions and some things that you know play, but for the most part, but once you’re in that window, you’re not just entitled to it. It it is established for that situation. You’ve got a stay-at-home spouse who you know stayed home with the children, has been out of the workforce for a long time. The other spouse, high wage earner or weight or money spouse, doesn’t have to be high or not, just they’re the money spouse, right? And so this new spouse needs time to get back into the workflow. So the way to qualify for it is difficult, but then you also, for us in Texas, you have to be able to show that you know, post-divorce, you’re not gonna have enough money to provide for your minimum reasonable needs. That’s a pretty low bar.

Yeah.

You also have you also have to have gone out and shut, look, I’ve tried to find work and I can’t find work. So there are ways to get spousal maintenance in Texas. It is difficult, uh, but there’s there’s there’s an avenue for that. I I would say that for the not like when people are unhappy in their marriage or they’re contemplating divorce, a huge factor is obviously the children, what’s gonna happen to the children, where they’re gonna go. Uh the parent who’s been the primary caregiver is thinking about control or or you know, they’ve been the parent. This person’s now, you know, they I make sure they have a balanced meal. We eat what well, they eat, you know, pizza and ice cream. Yes. He gets it, they get to do that. There’s, you know. The other main thing that they’re freaking out about is how am I gonna live? I I don’t have any money. Yeah. He or she makes a lot of money. I I sacrificed for their career. That that, you know, what the money you leave with, but that monthly stipend, that’s a problem. And and so, you know, I I I do try to counsel people who are on that cusp or consulting with me before they’re even filed. Of you’ve got to get your head around the idea that your life is going to change. Financially, the non-moneyed spouse’s life is gonna financially change much greater than the the moneyed spouse. Yeah. But you’re weighing you know what you’re living in or what you’re dealing with. Certainly, if there’s abuse or violence, like you have to leave. You that’s not good for you or your children.

It’s just so hard. It’s hard. Sure. So hard. Sure.

But what I do tell people, this is true, and I don’t mean it to be harsh, but we only know what what we see and grow up in.

Yeah.

There’s no manual. And so we’re training our children right now what a marriage is, how a husband treats a wife, how a wife treats a husband, you know. And when you are in a situation where one person is abusive, and it doesn’t have to be physical, there’s other types of abuse.

Emotionally, you know, yeah.

You are like you’re training your children, this is what a marriage is, this is what a family is. And and yes, leaving might be difficult and financially difficult, but at the cost of now training, you know, yeah, you know, I don’t I don’t want my son to grow up and be a husband that is abusive or abusive to his children or his wife. I don’t want my daughter to grow up and find somebody who is abusive to her and think this is what a marriage is.

Yeah, that’s so true. It it it is, I mean, and to me, it’s worth maybe living a different life style. Yeah. Um, well, I’m really glad I didn’t get divorced in Texas. Apparently, you had Utah has different uh scales for child support and alimony. So, what do you what’s the average

The True Cost Of Fighting

cost of in a divorce? If someone’s thinking I can’t even afford a divorce, like is it is there a set amount, uh and a standard amount? I know if you fight a lot, the more you fight, the more you they pay you.

Yeah, what I say is agreements are cheap, easy, and fast. Right? The more we agree, the faster it goes and the cheaper it is. Fighting is not, and fighting is anytime someone says no. And and I mean, yeah, you’re entitled to know all the information, all the financials, and and the non-money dispo, I don’t have a clue what we have. And we send the other side a note, give us all the money, get show us the statement, show me the stuff, and they say no. Now we’re fighting. Only a judge decides things, and so and I I have plenty of examples of how there’s nothing too small that we can’t fight about it. Yes, but but if if we can’t agree on who gets the cheesecake factory gift cards, then a judge has to decide that. If we can’t agree who gets the blue rim margarita glasses that you bought in Mexico, then you’re gonna take that to a jail. You’re gonna pay my hourly rate to go fight about that.

Yeah. Why do people get so petty? I guess they because they’re stuck in the fairness.

Because it’s the principle.

The principle, yeah.

And and you’re right, it’s the fair cycle. I I think a difference between me and maybe other lawyers is I mean, first of all, I enjoy going to court. I like to go to court. I I obviously went to law school to go to court, but I don’t like to go to court when I know the outcome is gonna be bad for my client, or when it’s you know, I don’t like going to court and getting just destroyed for the sake of getting paid. That doesn’t do me any good. What I tell clients who want to fight about the principle is I’ll look them dead in the face and say, that’s fine. The only family who’s gonna benefit from that is mine. And my my kids aren’t cheap either. So you want to go fight about the blue rim margarita glasses? Awesome. Let’s go do it. Often I will literally say it just like that. And almost every time I do, it makes them at least stand back and be like, Yeah, wait a minute. What am I doing here? Like, do you want your family to have that money or do you want my family to have that money?

Yeah.

I’m more than happy to go fight about that, you know, that TV that you’re that it cost less than my hourly rate for us to be talking about it.

Yeah.

But you want to go do that? Okay. And I I’ll have that blunt conversation with someone, and most of the time I’m successful to help jar them out of that fair cycle on that point.

Yes. It is so true. It is so true. That’s I always tell people, I’m like, if you’re gonna get divorced, you have to in my I’m a coach, so of course I advocate for coaching or therapy because that’s when you need a vent about your ex-husband wanting the marguerie glasses or the cheesecake factory gift card. That’s right. Husband or wife, could be both. Um, that’s when you need to vent and heal and figure out wait, someday I’m gonna be able to afford my own gift card or go back to Mexico and instead of having your attorney do it, because it just becomes forever. I mean, I have a friend, she’s on her seventh year of trying to get the financials of divorce figured out. They’d bifurcated. I don’t know if they bifurcate divorces in Texas.

We can.

We try not to because now things are, you know, yes, which I’m like, she should have never done it because she’s legally divorced, yet she still has never been paid for the money. And so, and of course, he keeps on filing motion after motion after motion. And so she’s spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get her money. And I’m I’m like, maybe we should just let him have it, right? I don’t know. Well, that’s what he’s hoping for.

Yeah, you know, um there are plenty of examples of people with money using their money to uh delay the yeah, that’s right. I I think we have a few, at least from our we have tactics in in Texas that uh we would use to force trials and to force certain things, but at the end of the day, you know, my superpower is to make paper that judges sign. And if somebody is not going to follow a piece of paper that a judge signs, then I have to go get more pieces of paper and I have to get judges to sign different pieces of thing. But that’s that’s the system we have. At the end of the day, it’s still civil litigation, yes, and yes, I it hasn’t happened much. I can think of the one time in my career where the other side was put in handcuffs right there in the courtroom and they escorted. It was awesome. It was awesome, but that just doesn’t happen as much as maybe it should or we’d want it to. Yeah, but there can be consequences, yeah.

Well, and I I just think divorce, I mean, it’s sad anyways, right? Like no one gets married to get divorced. That’s right. And thank goodness we can get divorced because sometimes there are really there are reasons we need to get divorced. And we’re grateful for people like you that help us do that. Yeah. So okay, before we end, is there anything else you want us to know or like things like how do how do we look

How To Choose The Right Attorney

for an attorney? Like, what’s your suggestion on are we supposed to call three attorneys? Like, what are good practices for someone that because most most people have never hired an attorney?

Yeah, I think there’s a couple things that are important. One, you need to talk to an attorney in your state or wherever you are, yeah, to know what is and is not. Chat GBT, uh, you know, claw, all the AI, all the internet, that that’s they’re great tools. But you need to talk to an actual attorney who practices in your county to know this thing you said that’s not true, or that’s not how it happens in our courts, things like that. You need to have information before you can make a decision. You need to know what is the law, what is the reality. So, if nothing else, having a consultation is important. My personal opinion, you know, we charge for consultations, we charge for my time. I think that, you know, sometimes when people say you get a free consultation, you are not talking to an attorney. Most of the time you’re talking to some sort of intake specialist or someone like that uh who can provide you and get information, but you’re not getting legal information from an attorney.

Right.

So I th I think that’s important, and I think paying for their time is reasonable. Yes. But the the other thing that I I the way I practice, you know, I think if you’re talking to someone and they’re just saying yes, yes, yes to you, and everything you say is, oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I I’m suspect, right? My my job is to tell you the truth even when you don’t want to hear it, and then help you make decisions based on the facts of your case and how it applies to the law. And and if you have an attorney who isn’t telling you that that’s not good, or you shouldn’t be doing that, or you I understand that’s what you want and that’s how you feel, but here’s how the law applies that. Doesn’t mean you can’t go fight about it, right? You can always go fight, but you should at least have a sense. The worst are the people that that are just championing whatever their client says, knowing full well when we go into court, they’re gonna get obliterated. And they come out and their client is totally confused because this whole time they they were fighting so hard for this thing that they believed they were gonna get because their lawyer just told them yes, yes, yes. Yes, yeah. Part of a consultation and evaluating a lawyer is this person telling you what you need to know in order to fully evaluate this decision. It’s a pretty big decision.

So yeah, I think yeah, it is the biggest besides get who you marry and a few other, like if you’re gonna have kids and all that, but getting divorced and in my opinion, getting divorced well, it is one of your most important decisions. So spending three, four, five hundred dollars to get information is worth it.

I agree. I think that people there’s a version of them that they can’t envision and they’re stuck in this cycle. But I do think that what I try to spend back on people when you know, because I I deal with people who are contemplating divorce. I’m not sure I want a divorce, and they tell me these horrific examples. They’ll tell me these uh I will say, are they abusive?

Right.

And I can’t tell you what times people say, well, not physically. And I say, uh, I didn’t say physical. Did you hear are they abusive? And they’ll tell me some of the most horrific things that their spouse says to them or does. And I look at them and I say, if your daughter was telling you this story, or your son, would you tell them to suck it up and just be married? And without fail, they’re always like, of course not. Right. So why can’t you tell yourself that? But there is this, there’s a block. People feel that they’re in the middle of it and they can’t give themselves permission to say, yeah, this is not okay. I I don’t want to live in this environment.

Yeah, and especially if they’ve already tried like therapy, trying to work it out. I’m sure I mean I always tell people, make sure you’ve tried everything so you know when you’re going to divorce that you it’s not like you just decided one day to get divorced. Now, most people aren’t that they’ve tried and tried for years, decades, and then they’re like, I don’t see any way out of this besides divorce. But yeah, I like that example because we wouldn’t let our kids,

Kids Know More Closing Advice

we wouldn’t want our kids to be dealing with what we’ve been dealing with.

There’s a myth people have that like we’re gonna stay together for the kids. It’s better for the kids if we’re together. I I don’t make a lot of promises in my practice, but I do tell people I promise you that your children will do much, they will thrive in two happy homes versus one unhappy home.

Yeah.

That’s that is true.

Yeah, I believe that. Even one happy home and one unhappy home, even if one spouse is still a jerk, one person is still a jerk, they finally have a safe home to be at least be in, even if they sometimes and then they get to see, like, oh my gosh, this feels so much better now that mom or dad isn’t here, they can feel it. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that.

Whatever people think that they’ve kept things from their kids, and I’m promising you, whatever you think your kids know or don’t know, they know a hundred times more.

Yeah, yeah, it is true.

It’s true.

It is, it is true. I I’ve learned that because I got divorced and then I’ve had lots of conversations with my kids, and they’ve told me things, and I think, oh yeah. I thought I was so good at hiding it or pretending everyone does, yeah. That’s right, yeah, it is so true. Well, thank you so much, Jason, for coming on my podcast. Is there any last words, any last advice, thoughts?

I mean, no, I just echo again, right, that fairness is not a thing.

Yes.

And and you need information before you can make a decision. These are pretty important principles.

Yeah, and it’s important, I think, to call at least one or two attorneys to get. I think you want to like your attorney. You’re gonna be working with them and make sure they’re qualified. And all right, well, just so everyone knows, we’ll put all of Jason’s information in the show notes. You can contact him if you live in Texas. If you liked this podcast, please share it with your family and friends. And I will talk to you next week. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Happily Even After Betrayal. If you want to understand what stage of betrayal you’re in, head to my website at lifecoachgen.com. That’s Jen with one N and take the free quiz. It’s a simple step you can take today toward creating your own happily even after.