Welcome to my podcast Happily, even After. I’m life coach, jen, I’m passionate about helping people recover from betrayal. I rode the intense emotional roller coaster and felt stuck and traumatized for years. It’s the reason I became a trauma-informed certified life coach who helps people like you navigate their post-betrayal world. I have the tools, processes and knowledge to help you not only heal from the betrayal but create a healthy future. Today we begin to help you live happily even after. Hey, friends, welcome to today’s podcast.
Hey, before we get started, I just wanted to wish my brother, who has passed away 10 years ago. It’s his birthday today and I feel like we have birthdays in heaven, right. So I just hope, if you know you have loved ones or whatever, I hope if you know you have loved ones or whatever I just want my brother, justin, to know I love him and I’m so grateful that he was my brother and I know someday I’m going to get to see him again. So happy birthday, justin. He would be 46, I think. No, oh, no, 48. 48. Wow, I was shaving off lots of years. He would be 48. He would probably be getting stressed that he was getting ready to turn 50. But anyways, happy birthday. Now we’ll move on to our topic.
Several groups of women and in this group, you know, we’ve all been betrayed and we’re, you know, talking about different things and healing, and it’s really about our healing right and one woman was talking about how she felt a lot of apathy for her former spouse after I had shared a story. And so I just had been thinking about apathy because for me, I have really been working on feeling neutral towards my former spouse and so she’s like, isn’t apathy and neutrality the same thing? And yes, they’re similar, similar, but they’re very different. And so I just want to talk about this because if you’ve ever felt apathetic, I just want to discuss, especially in betrayal, I think it’s very common. So I’m just going to share an experience that I had recently that I’ve been sharing quite a bit. I don’t I don’t think I’ve shared it on my podcast because it just really happened but for me it was like a pinnacle moment that I realized that I had achieved my goal of feeling neutral. But that wasn’t really. When you feel neutral, it’s almost people think, well, that means you don’t feel anything. But actually I was feeling a lot of things, it just wasn’t towards my former spouse.
So I have a daughter that got her master’s degree and she did it online. She lives in Oklahoma, but her school was in Louisiana, and so for her graduation I flew to Louisiana, and so did her dad, and I hadn’t seen my former spouse for a year and a half. So you can imagine I was nervous. I was thinking and the ironic thing is we literally probably live like less than 10 miles apart from each other. Right, we have four children together. We live in a very close community. So the fact that I haven’t seen him or needed to see him for a year and a half might be surprising to some of you, but I hadn’t. And so here I was, flying to Louisiana for the first time, and so was he, and that’s when I was going to see him at my daughter’s graduation. Of course, she was nervous, she felt anxious about okay, what is this going to be? Are mom and dad going to be on their best behavior? And I still wasn’t sure. You know where we were going to sit, all the logistics of all of that.
So we, the day of her graduation, we got up, got ready, showed up and we were taking pictures. He had Ubered to the venue and we walk up the stairs and we see each other and honestly, I was like it was like he was just another person in the crowd. That just happened to you know, know us right and gave my daughter, gave my son-in-law a hug and we shook hands and we took each other’s pictures. I took him with the kids and he took mine with the kids and it was very pleasant. I just felt for me, my goal was to feel confident, to feel peaceful, content, and I was.
I’ve talked to you a lot about my nervous, our nervous system, and I just wanted to feel regulated. I didn’t want to feel anxiety or feel like sad, like oh it’s so sad, I’m divorced or whatever. I wasn’t sure what I was going to feel, but I really worked on creating a strong zone of resilience with my nervous system and so I just really went in the you know event, knowing I was going to be okay and I was safe, because I created that with inside of me Turned out, I sat, my son-in-law sat in the middle and my former spouse sat on the other side and we got to cheer for her and it was great. And afterwards we went to lunch and it was just nothing exciting or wonderful, it was just awesome. We were there celebrating my daughter, our daughter, and so it really was such a testimony to me of the healing that I’ve done, but the possibility of the healing that each of you can do if you pay attention and you’re intentional.
And so when I said I felt neutral, I just didn’t want to, I didn’t want to feel lots of negative emotion or a lot of necessarily positive emotion, but I guess I could say I appreciated that he was the father of my children and that we were able to be in this space together and I didn’t feel triggered at any point in the five or six hours that we were together. And so I was sharing this story with my group and she just was like I just look at my husband and feel apathy and she’s like is that what you’re talking about? And I was thinking I don’t think so. So I just researched the definition because I don’t think they’re the same. Someone could argue that, oh, they’re totally the same, but what I was feeling in that moment of that experience was definitely not the same as what she’s feeling.
Apathy means lack of interest, lack of enthusiasm, lack of concern, in other words, lack of feeling right, and so there’s just a lot of lack when you feel apathy. So I think the reason why, like for sure for her, why she feels apathy, because she is probably depressed, right, I’m not going to go in what her husband has done to her, but it isn’t good, right, he totally betrayed her. They’re in a, you know, big court battle with the kids and custody and all sorts of issues, right, and so she for sure has experienced a traumatic event. Anytime the discovery of betrayal happens, it’s called betrayal trauma. It’s very traumatic to your body to realize the person that you’ve been married to, to you has been lying to you for years and they had been. This couple has been married for a very long time, just like me and my former spouse, and so I think she really is unable to feel these feelings because it’s like almost you have to detach yourself emotionally from the situation, otherwise it is too much. That’s your body’s way to protect you from feeling all those really awful emotions that betrayal creates, and so it is a protection.
Apathy can be a protection of your mental and physical body. Otherwise you could, you know, come under a lot of distress. So some people experience apathy because of trauma as well as a way to protect yourself, and you know, it can be attached to depression of people that are super depressed, right, it’s because their nervous system is something’s going on inside of them and so it not necessarily always is connected with trauma. But this is just the part that I’m talking about, because when betrayal happens, for sure trauma is experienced, okay. So I think that is why she was feeling apathy. Apathy is for sure. You’re stuck in freeze, right? It’s that freeze response in your nervous system that you become immobile, unable to really have interest in anything, have any excitement or enthusiasm or joy. It’s like almost you stop caring because you just don’t have the capacity.
And I think what’s great if you can acknowledge that you feel any emotion, right? Most people I love when I ask people hey, what are you feeling today? And they’re like fine, I’m like okay, fine is not a feeling right or good, or I’m tired, right. So we need to get better. It would be helpful to get better at actually labeling what you’re feeling. It could be really helpful for you, especially if you’re trying to heal from something, and so I think it’s really great that she can notice that she feels apathy and she was able to identify that, because awareness is the key, the first key to starting to heal an emotion okay, or heal your body, heal from an experience.
But I think what’s under the apathy that could be really helpful if you’re like I do kind of feel that is the need to feel anger, sadness, frustration, lots of negative emotions. The apathy is protecting you from feeling those emotions. And the second, that you can have a little courage or just a little willingness. If you can have a willingness to lean in and attempt to feel something else, that could move you through the pain much quicker, because what happens is they just get suppressed in your body. And so you’ve just numbed out, basically, and have used the emotion of apathy to cover all that up, because a lot of people, you know the pain, the emotion of betrayal is so heavy and hard to feel. It feels like we’re going to die. It feels like if you felt it, you’re never going to feel normal again, like it’s going to be so much pain. You just don’t know how you’re going to function, feel normal again. Like it’s going to be so much pain, you just don’t know how you’re going to function.
And so I think that’s where apathy comes in, because, for me, feeling neutral, I wanted to like, I just wanted to feel like he was. I could have some grace and compassion for him, but I didn’t love him, right Like I wasn’t loving my former husband like, and I also didn’t hate him. So that, to me, is what I was trying to fill, which really brought me a lot of peace. And so maybe neutral wasn’t really the right word that I was using, but I just wanted to be neutral, right Like he was just a dad coming to see his daughter graduate, and I was a mom coming to see his daughter graduate, and I was a mom coming to see my daughter graduate, and we had happened to have a 26-year marriage and four kids together, so it worked out well.
If you’re experiencing apathy, it might be helpful to talk to your doctor and try some medication, because it can cause you really to also feel depressed, and sometimes I know people that feel depressed it’s like you’re just drowning, and so maybe medication could be helpful. I think for sure hiring a coach or a therapist or both to teach you tools to help you feel safe in your body. So once you feel safe, then that will allow your body to release those other emotions that you’ve been suppressing and withholding yourself from feeling hate. Talking about my feelings. Breathwork is your friend, because breathwork, for whatever reason, activates your nervous system and it helps release emotion out of your body without any talking, so you don’t have to talk. It’s just the breathing style of the breathwork that I do. It’s conscious, continued breathwork, it’s a breathwork out of your mouth. It can release emotion within minutes and it’s really powerful and you don’t have to do any talking, and so that is a great way to release emotion.
If you feel kind of stuck, if you feel apathetic, just acknowledge your feelings. Don’t judge them. Don’t think you’ve done something wrong, like why am I doing this? Them. Don’t think you’ve done something wrong, like why am I doing this? Judgment will also keep you stuck.
Try going out for a walk, finding a group of other people that have been betrayed, and I just wanted to share really quick that I have created an online. I call it the Happily Even After Club, and I think it’s the club you never wanted to be a part of, but you are so glad you found, and so I’m going to put in the show notes how you can join that club and it’s just a place that I really have. It’s kind of my passion or my dream to have a space that other men and women can share experiences, ask questions. It’s totally free and so I’m just getting started with it. So I would love people to join it, because the more the merrier right, and I know there’s a lot of women and men out there really hurting and they don’t feel safe or they don’t even know who they can turn to or like who will understand. But people in this group who’ve been betrayed are going to get you, they’re going to understand, and I think healing can come in community and so it can be really helpful. So I make sure to check that out. I just like to say like, find your people, find who your people are and for what.
Some people may not like the idea of like talking, being around other people that have been betrayed, but for me, I have found that one of the most healing things that has helped me on my healing journey, because I didn’t feel alone, and betrayal is very lonely, especially, I think nowadays there’s a lot more resources out there, but back in the day, the first time I ever got betrayed, I mean I didn’t have anyone to talk to. One person I did always talk to was my brother, who was amazing, but I was always grateful for him because he just let me vent and he never told me what I should do or shouldn’t do. And I’m sure he thought in his head many times what are you doing? But he didn’t. He just loved me anyways and was just there for me.
I think it’s important to try something new. Sometimes that’s going to help you get out of apathy because you’re going to have a different experience. You’re going to experience something and feel something. The idea apathy keeps you stuck of kind of no feeling. But then, if you can try something new, go on a walk, get sunlight I mean those are all the things that I talk about a lot, you know getting good sleep, eating, good food, all those things but I just want you to realize those are very important. They’re going to help you in all aspects of your life.
Anything that can help with your mood. Pay attention when you’re depressed you don’t want to do anything. Your mood, pay attention. You know when you’re depressed you don’t want to do anything. So even if you can just choose one thing a day to do taking a shower, all you have in you is one thing. Just choose one, don’t overwhelm yourself, and then maybe in a month or so. You can choose two things Okay.
So if you feel stuck in apathy, it’s okay, like, just acknowledge it, this is the reality, and then we’re going to try to move you into a different emotion. And even if it’s anger, that’s good. We need to feel angry. We also need to maybe feel lots of other emotions. Sadness, right, anger is always a secondary emotion. It’s always layered. Especially sadness it’s usually underneath anger. Emotion it’s always layered, especially sadness is usually underneath anger.
The idea is to allow yourself to feel any emotion on purpose and so getting good and practice at feeling those emotions. So I really I don’t know if I’ve ever felt apathy, I’m sure I have. I’ve ever felt apathy, I’m sure I have. I just like have never named it that. And so I really appreciated this other woman, this other friend of mine she’s not the other woman, she’s a friend, she’s a friend. I appreciated her expressing how she was feeling, because the truth is we all feel lots of different emotions and every person’s experience with betrayal is different. So that’s why we can learn from each other and we can be like oh, I hadn’t thought of that emotion. I don’t know if I felt that, but I can appreciate someone feeling that and I totally get why because it is attached to trauma and it is a protector for us and not allowing to feel all the other emotions that we could be feeling at the time, because we’re just not ready. We’re not, we don’t feel safe enough, our body doesn’t feel safe enough to feel that. So if you’re there no judgment, lots of love, and I promise you can move through it and come out on the other side healed and confident and whoever you want to be, you can totally be that person.
Anyways, thanks so much for listening. If you liked this podcast, I’d love for you to share it with your friends and your family, or anyone else that you think could use and listen to this and it could be helpful for. Have a beautiful day and I will see you next week. If you want to learn how to live happily even after, sign up for my email at hello at lifecoachjen with one n dot com. Follow me on Instagram and Facebook at happily even after. Coach, let’s work together to create your happily even after.
